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Carmageddon 1 3dfx, smoothly at 4k resolution and 250 yon view distance - video inside

ix's picture
ix
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Carmageddon 1 3dfx, smoothly at 4k resolution and 250 yon view distance - video inside
#1 Submitted: Sun, 22/07/2018 - 17:50

This was fun, including an enjoyable final kill at the end of the video.

I've been trying to get Carmageddon 1 running smoothly at high resolutions for years and I've finally managed it due to a combination of factors including a better PC.

3dfx Carma always looks so much better than Carm95, even with the ddraw patch and in 4k with the extended view distance looks better than ever. Really Carmageddon is spoiled by such a limiting draw distance in the standard game.

The trick is not using DosBox and going full VM. This is Windows XP running inside VirtualBox with dgvoodoo 1.5. Including installing windows in the VM it took about 20 minutes to set up.

MrDeviance's picture
Cunning Stunt Licker
Posts: 407
Submitted: Mon, 23/07/2018 - 12:02

What I notice is the car lod models are not maxed out. Is that a glitch related to the higher yon or did you forget to set the car complexity to max?
Also, why would carmageddon 1 look better at a 4k resolution running on a 4k monitor than it would look in 1080p running on a full hd monitor?
I think there should not be any visible difference between full hd and 4k if those resolutions are ran natively on their respective monitors/tvs, precisely because those resolutions are waaay above the res of the game's textures.
Why would one expect better visuals at 4k or 8k ,16k or 10000k in a game that can already reach it's max visual potential at around 1280x1024 with max forced Antialiasing and 16x Anisotropic Filtering + increased yon on a standard 2000's 5:4 lcd monitor.
I really see no point in running it at 4k for any other reason than if you own a 4k monitor or tv and due to you wanting to play the game on it, you are more or less forced to run it at native resolution in order to maintain the crispness of the image.
Other than that I see no other benefit to run old games in 4k.
4k only starts showing a difference when textures are high res enough and the models are detaled enough to require those 4k pixels to show more detail at a distance.

So correct me if I'm wrong but I believe there is virtually no difference between 1k and 10000k in a game such as carmageddon 1
Every 3d game that gets pushed to the max resolution possible will reach a point of diminishing returns when it goes beyond a certain resolution and for carmageddon 1 the point of diminishing returns has been reached long ago in my opinion.
2k or 4k is just overkill.
You are basically using more pixels than needed to render just one single pixel in the game. Increasing the number of pixels on the screen simply won't portray that image with more clarity than the game it already has.
What you are doing there is rendering a low res 3d game at 8 million pixels and even though it works it will never look better to you or me or anybody else.
You just can't get a HD remaster just by increasing the resolution to infinity.
One benefit of a higher resolution for this game is that after one point you will not need AA anymore if you want to remove jaggies but for such low poly stuff, AA will do it's job perfectly.

To add to my post, I will also quote a guy from a different forum that has answered the question, does playing old games in 4k really help?

"There is no difference between playing an old game in 4k resolution and playing an old game in 1080p resolution with 8X AA.

"In the end the graphics are identical. Going to a higher resolution doesn't change anything except the size of the pixels. Character models, textures, etc... are all exactly the same regardless of the resolution. So the only real difference will be in the size of the jaggies along the edges of objects. With 4k they'll be smaller, delivering the equivalent of high levels of AA at lower resolutions. "

Edited by: MrDeviance on Mon, 23/07/2018 - 12:35
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ix
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Submitted: Mon, 23/07/2018 - 13:25

Quote:
What I notice is the car lod models are not maxed out. Is that a glitch related to the higher yon or did you forget to set the car complexity to max?

Yes, you're right I've corrected it and will upload a second video shortly! 4k was just to max out my monitor. However, it does look pretty good. As most people struggle to get a decent framerate at 1024x768 in DosBox, having smooth gameplay at 4k is fun.

Quote:
I think there should not be any visible difference between full hd and 4k if those resolutions are ran natively on their respective monitors/tvs, precisely because those resolutions are waaay above the res of the game's textures.

You're right, but you do still get the GPU mip mapping and edges look significantly sharper at 4k (on my 4k monitor) than using 1080p. Using my method I can't turn on FSAA so couldn't test that hypothesis, however you are still getting more pixels on the screen which makes edges look sharper and details in the distance are considerably crisper than running at 1080p.

Regardless of antialiasing, A 4k image on a 4k screen will always look sharper than a 1080p image on a 1080p screen of a similar size due to there being more and smaller physical pixels.

For example, look at pedestrians in the distance, you can seem them super sharp because there are still more pixels displaying them than required.

Toshiba-3's picture
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Submitted: Sat, 11/08/2018 - 20:09

ix wrote:
3dfx Carma always looks so much better than Carm95, even with the ddraw patch and in 4k with the extended view distance looks better than ever. Really Carmageddon is spoiled by such a limiting draw distance in the standard game.

Yeah well that's your opinion. Because C1 was really not made to be run in 3dfx mode (that was added later), and IMO it shows. SP works a bit better with 3dfx mode I guess.
I posted a tweet last year with C1's different modes: https://twitter.com/toshiba_3/status/867306167743250435
You can see going from hires to 3dfx that the sky rendering is broken. The game is slightly brighter. Depthcue darkness is less thick. Overal the game loses its dark grittiness.
And yeh, the color palette really isn't good enough to let bilinear filtering do its job nicely.

And you go even further by maxing the resolution which just makes the low density of the overal geometry more obvious. And boosting the view distance which removes the fog/darkness, makes the LOD and peds popping onscreen even more apparent(, also breaks the AI).

Smh, not how C1 should look.

... and carmageddon add-ons at road reaction.

Leatherface 74's picture
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Submitted: Mon, 13/08/2018 - 14:58

Toshiba-3 wrote:
ix wrote:
3dfx Carma always looks so much better than Carm95, even with the ddraw patch and in 4k with the extended view distance looks better than ever. Really Carmageddon is spoiled by such a limiting draw distance in the standard game.

Yeah well that's your opinion. Because C1 was really not made to be run in 3dfx mode (that was added later), and IMO it shows. SP works a bit better with 3dfx mode I guess.
I posted a tweet last year with C1's different modes: https://twitter.com/toshiba_3/status/867306167743250435
You can see going from hires to 3dfx that the sky rendering is broken. The game is slightly brighter. Depthcue darkness is less thick. Overal the game loses its dark grittiness.
And yeh, the color palette really isn't good enough to let bilinear filtering do its job nicely.

And you go even further by maxing the resolution which just makes the low density of the overal geometry more obvious. And boosting the view distance which removes the fog/darkness, makes the LOD and peds popping onscreen even more apparent(, also breaks the AI).

Smh, not how C1 should look.

I agree with this, Carmageddon 1 and its addon pack running with 3dfx is quite the ugliest thing ever.