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Auto Countersteer

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RXDimA's picture
Fluffy Bunny
Posts: 3
Auto Countersteer
#1 Submitted: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 02:57

The handling is so much fun, but the automatic countersteer just ruins everything. Sometimes when I corner I just start driving all wobbly, trying to countersteer the auto countersteer and it makes it really hard to hit anything moving. This is most prominent after turning and releasing the joystick, the front wheels do not point straight ahead, despite the joystick being at middle position. I tried disabling it using cheat engine but all I could do is freeze the visual representation of the wheels. Maybe there's an existing mod that disables auto countersteer?

Gunsmith's picture
Norman E. Carnage
Posts: 57
Submitted: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 07:37

there is no auto countersteer, you're fighting the inertia leaving a corner and the body roll is fighting you back, take you foot off the throttle, let your wheels grip and then drive on.

Edited by: Gunsmith on Tue, 11/07/2017 - 07:37
flykas's picture
Cunning Stunt Licker
Posts: 402
Submitted: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 11:14

There is definitely auto counter steer and traction control. And yeah it would be really interesting to see how the car would handle without such helpers because the handling engine seems pretty realistic.

Gunsmith's picture
Norman E. Carnage
Posts: 57
Submitted: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 13:14

pretty sure there isn't either of those, we have tyres that grip now as well as mixed traction surfaces, coming from the handling model in carma's 1 and 2 that's probably throwing you off.

if hes trying to slide around corners whats more than likely happening is the body roll is creating extra traction on the rear outside wheel resulting in extra grip causing a "dragging" effect resulting in the back not stepping out enough thus the impression of countersteer, it also depends on the angle hes taking as well, the more over 45° he is the more drag he'll feel.

without manual transmission its difficult to control the amount of torque generated to the drive wheels so you cant control the traction slip point as you'd like, thankfully carma's wheelspin function is great for just dumping all traction on cue making balancing high speed cornering easy and fun.

Edited by: Gunsmith on Tue, 11/07/2017 - 13:40
RXDimA's picture
Fluffy Bunny
Posts: 3
Submitted: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 18:03

I may have explained myself poorly (English is my third language). The issue I have is that the ingame steering wheel (and car's tires) is not always in sync with the joystick position. When I lose control of cars in Dirt Rally, Gran Turismo 6, Live for Speed, and GTR Evo, if my joystick is right in the middle, so is the steering wheel and the wheels, no matter what is happening with the car. In Carma MD, sometimes after cornering the steering wheel goes the other way despite the joystick being right in the middle (doesn't happen if it's not in the middle), and after I finish countersteering that deviation, the game thinks I'm cornering again and the car goes where I did not intend to go, making me wobble. It's pretty annoying but I'm starting to get used to it.

Edit: Ingame steering wheel, when using 1st person cam.

Edited by: RXDimA on Tue, 11/07/2017 - 23:55
Gunsmith's picture
Norman E. Carnage
Posts: 57
Submitted: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 19:50

ah right, carmageddon doesn't natively support steering wheels.

RXDimA's picture
Fluffy Bunny
Posts: 3
Submitted: Tue, 11/07/2017 - 22:53

Gunsmith wrote:
ah right, carmageddon doesn't natively support steering wheels.

Should've added that I play with a DS3 joystick.

Mad Mike's picture
Velociraptor Fister
Kickstarter Backer
Posts: 1135
Submitted: Thu, 13/07/2017 - 15:34

There are several factors in game, that can seem to mimick the effects of automatic counter-steering. Anything in Yellow is a comment from the games .exe. These values are all defined uniquely within the 'setup.lol' for each vehicle.

Firstly, there is 'SetSteerCentreMultiplier()':
On every official car I've looked at, this has been set to two. As such, when there is no steering input, it will double the steering speed for straightening the wheels up. It is not unreasonable to suggest that to some users, this could contribute towards the impression of the vehicle automatically steering into a slide to some extent. As when there is no steering input, the wheels move faster towards an angle of zero, suggesting that there could be some other input going on.

An interesting, but generally useless note; apparently if a value of zero is used for the 'SetSteerCentreMultiplier()', then the wheels will centre immediately.

Secondly, there is 'SetSteerGyroscope()':
This "Tends to make the front wheels preserve their world space alignment. This helps make the car stable." In other words, when a car gets sideways, this will generally get the front wheels to maintain their angle relative to the world. This will create the impression of automatic counter-steering as the wheels will tend to stay pointing in the same direction relative to the world, even if the rest of the vehicle has changed direction. With the gyroscope disabled, the wheels tend to maintain their angle relative to the car, or just straighten up. Disabled, this potentially makes the car more unstable as the user will be responsible for all counter steering.

EDIT: Irrelevant, the above keeps the steering stable.

Lastly, despite what most of us have believed in the past, the game does feature a crude form of stability/traction/grip control. Defined by:

  • 'SetStabilityGripChange()' "Amount grip can be adjusted to stabilise car"
  • 'SetStabilityThreshold()' "Adjust point that stability control kicks in 0.0=immediately, 1.0 = quit late,"

If the vehicle breaks traction/grip, after a period of time defined by the Threshold value (0.5 on the official cars), the game will adjust the grip (g's) of the wheels to stabilize the car (0.4 on the official cars). Whether this grip adjustment applies per wheel, or per axle, I do not know. On all of my future releases, I have disabled the stability control.

If I have misinterpreted any of the above, then apologies for any misinformation.

Edited by: Mad Mike on Thu, 13/07/2017 - 15:34

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Gunsmith's picture
Norman E. Carnage
Posts: 57
Submitted: Thu, 13/07/2017 - 09:26

'SetSteerGyroscope()': simply keeps the wheels center to the car when no steering input is entered, it doesnt actively counter oversteer and stabilitygrip change sounds like its simulating the grip increase of spinning wheels slowing to match relative roadspeed.

flykas's picture
Cunning Stunt Licker
Posts: 402
Submitted: Thu, 13/07/2017 - 10:48

"ts simulating the grip increase of spinning wheels slowing to match relative roadspeed." so this is basically traction control and gyro acts somewhat as autocountersteer I think, well all I know that without these helpers the car would driver very differently and it would be more difficult to control with gamepad, but I'd prefer lower level of helpers.

Gunsmith's picture
Norman E. Carnage
Posts: 57
Submitted: Thu, 13/07/2017 - 10:59

im thinking of it more from a physics engine point of view, not a car assist

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