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BoneofMalkav's picture
Norman E. Carnage
Posts: 58
Submitted: Thu, 11/06/2015 - 14:31

I take it there's a huge amount of difference between Doom Engine's usage of WAD files and Carmageddon Mobile's Usage of the format?

Trent's picture
I was in the War!
Community VIPKickstarter BackerCompetition Winner
Posts: 2989
Submitted: Thu, 11/06/2015 - 21:41

Yeah, Doom's WAD files have absolutely no relation to Stainless' WAD files other than the coincidental file extension.

QTZ's picture
QTZ
Fluffy Bunny
Posts: 33
Submitted: Thu, 24/09/2015 - 09:47

Hello Everyone!

Finally I have bough Android phone and downloaded Carma Free (stupidest version ever - we can set player car as first, then opponents waste their self on player car, which give points to player and finally player won the race without any interaction) and registered here.

It look like the obb file is not an obb format file. It look like Stainless wad encapsulated in another pack which describe the wad file, according to Toshiba-3 information I have try WADEdit to extract the obb, but the file was not recognized, so I have just deleted the first header - 45 Bytes at beginning of the obb (it will be 40 for full version) and extracted it successfully. It can be also extracted with Noesis, but with errors, so use WADEdit instead. Noesis and Flummery (which finally work on XP) doesn't show textures from that version, unfortunately other new tools are not XP compatible, so I can't try it.

Edit:
OK, it working, so here is a simple tool: FOBB - it can create wad from obb and obb from wad, by removing or adding this specific obb header.

Edit2:
...Finally I have started Windows 7...

What I see is that you guys - Trent and Errol - already know the IMAGEMAP file format "Huffman compression".
Unfortunatlely I don't know how to convert those img files using your tool (whatever parameter I enter nothing happened). Is Android format supported?
Since img files are also used in C:R C1 cars converted pack it look like Android C1 is even more similar to C:R...
...if only Stainless will change the stupid rules - playing it is like playing match where every goal count for one team... I hope at least in C:R is OK?

Trying the tools I saw this: "contact the software publisher", so I'm trying ;)

It look like Minge is 64 bit only? So can't test it completely...

Trent, please compile your tools with XP compatible compiler.

Cunt require .net but which version? It crash under Win 7 similar as older Flummery crash under XP... (current version working)
There is lack of information what is required...

Zadfucker crash on file selection... and can't find game folder... I don't have C:R... I just want to try it with Android version... and with C1 car pack... don't know what for I need C:R game to try this?

I have extracted zad files with other software, don't know if zadfucker do something more?

That's it for now, is anyone interested to mod frustrating Android version? ;)

Edited by: QTZ on Sat, 24/10/2015 - 22:38
Trent's picture
I was in the War!
Community VIPKickstarter BackerCompetition Winner
Posts: 2989
Submitted: Sat, 24/10/2015 - 23:22

The IMG code which Errol wrote for Flummery and I used in Minge was just for placeholder purpose until support for TDX files in CarMODgeddon was fixed, it was never 100% correct and didn't support all the compression methods and settings which the game's engine supported, just the bare minimum was done to get it working in the specific situation we needed it. Whether the format is the same as the version supported by the android version of C1 is another question entirely. The iOS and Android versions of C1 use a much earlier and more basic version of the engine, they have made a lot of changes to various formats over the few years since the mobile game was released. Does the android version not use TDX format textures like the iOS version did?

Regarding Minge and ZADFucker, both of those tools are made specifically to work with C:R for tasks related to modding that game. Minge is for managing and packing mods for CarMODgeddon and ZADFucker is for batch extracting the game's ZAD files into the correct location to run the game using extracted content. Neither are designed to work with anything else, so as the game requires Windows 7 as a minimum, I seen no point in supporting anything less.

Minge is 64bit, yes, because it needed to be: converting large textures hit the 32bit memory limit.

CUNT requires .NET 4.5 and should work fine under Windows 7 as far as I'm aware.

ZAD files are (with the exception of ZADs used for VTs) just plain ZIP files which you can extract with any old ZIP software.

QTZ's picture
QTZ
Fluffy Bunny
Posts: 33
Submitted: Sun, 25/10/2015 - 12:08

Follow the FOBB link above. You can extract the wad from obb file by your self and check. The textures all have IMAGEDATA headers.

If the tool is dedicated to C:R only (like the zadfucker) it can require win 7 (this will be nice to show info, BTW: this is strange that Microsoft keep DOS compatibility [display info] when XP is not handled...), but tools for texture / lua conversion should be XP compatible since it can be used with Android version which have no specified Windows requirement... only Android... (I don't think Android tools are comfortable to use, also I have no experience to create Android apk, so I don't think we should create and limit the tools to Android system only).

Even when someone have 64 bit system it doesn't mean he/she have enough memory installed... I don't know exactly what this tool doing with the textures, but conversion sound like it can read part of file then save it and so on. It is really required to read whole texture and proceed all the data at a time?

I don't know how to convert those files using current tools, but I think the simple command line tool to convert the file into bitmap and back to Gizmondo/iOS/Android/C:R formats will be great.

Trent's picture
I was in the War!
Community VIPKickstarter BackerCompetition Winner
Posts: 2989
Submitted: Sun, 25/10/2015 - 13:07

I don't have the android version of the game and don't have the time to waste buggering around with it.

I also have no interest in wasting my time supporting a 15 year old operating system which has been completely End Of Life'd for over a year and a half ago and reached it's mainstream End Of Life 6 years ago.

If someone using the tool has less memory than is needed to convert such high resolution textures then they really wouldn't have a suitable computer to make a mod which needs them anyway. When converting huge textures the array size limit for 32-bit .NET applications is hit well before the tool hits the 2gb memory limit anyway. And no, decoding 4x4 block based DXT compression and re-encoding it to canonical Huffman Encoding, or even plain old RLE, is not something which can be easily and efficiently done by doing parts of the texture at one time.

Like I said, this IMG conversion process was a placeholder which we did the bare minimum for to get CarMODgeddon mods working before the game was patched and may well not even create Android compatible IMG files. IMG support is purely left in Minge for legacy purposes and should not be used when packaging C:R mods any more, so I could easily remove it from the tool and that would let the tool be compiled for 32-bit machines again, but obviously that would remove the sole feature you want to use the tool for and C:R requires a 64-bit OS anyway so there's not much point.

If you want to create your own tools for converting textures to Android compatible formats then go for it, all the relevant code we have for the various file formats Beelzebub uses is up on Errol's GitHub account. I don't have the time to waste on doing that, though, as I not only don't have the Android version or a suitable Android device to test on but I also have far too much stuff to do on my tools for C:R. I don't even have the time or inclination to add proper support for compressing for iOS PVRTC compressed TDX textures to GibbedTools, I had to use Noesis to extract textures and PVR2TDX to convert them back to PVRTC TDX files for my proof-of-concept mod for the iOS version. I would suggest you look at the Duels Of The Planeswalkers moddding community to see if they have any Android compatible tools.

QTZ's picture
QTZ
Fluffy Bunny
Posts: 33
Submitted: Mon, 26/10/2015 - 10:45

As you probably know I have found that iOS textures are better than Gizmondo, I think you have used those textures for your car pack, so I think converting Android textures should interesting you either... As I said Android file are bigger than iOS, so it may indicate those are even better than iOS version (some are smaller, but this may be because of compression).

There is free version for Android (demo), so even if you don't have Android device I think you can download the obb file form that version. It look like they included everything except for cars and maps. (There is no all music and all cut-scenes in the apk, but apk is not necessary for texture conversion anyway). Everything except for the textures seems to be the same as in iOS version (just updated), so basically when you have modified iOS you can do the same for Android, just the textures...

The XP is not so old :) I'm a big fan of 8 bit machines, especially Atari. There are many people who still programming on it :) just for breaking barriers and for proof that impossible is possible :) But OK, I will use Virtual Box for your tools as I done now.

I have many unfinished projects, but I think creating such converter will be interesting for me. Since this is new for me it may took years... I will take a look at sources...

PS. My tool actually need the DotPW tool to extract wad. I done my research just before I started to code.

Edited by: QTZ on Mon, 26/10/2015 - 10:57
Trent's picture
I was in the War!
Community VIPKickstarter BackerCompetition Winner
Posts: 2989
Submitted: Mon, 26/10/2015 - 11:11

I'm certain the content for the Android version is absolutely identical to the content in the iOS version. The discrepancy in texture filesizes would make sense if the Android version does in fact use Huffman encoded IMG format textures instead of the better compression afforded by PVRTC compressed TDX format. Having thought about it, I would assume they used the more basic, less efficient IMG format because of the lack of consistency in Android GPUs. They could guarantee iOS devices would have hardware support for PVRTC as they all use PowerVR graphics chips, but only certain Android devices use that graphics chip. As they couldn't guarantee a specific hardware compression format on Android, they probably had to decompress textures in software, hence using the IMG format.

DemolitionNick's picture
Fluffy Bunny
Posts: 1
Submitted: Tue, 17/05/2016 - 19:22

Guys, are you there? I need some help. I'm very interested in modding mobile carmageddon, especially android version. I alredy learned how to repack obb and wad, how to open and mod most of files, but there is a big question. It's .img files. Tons of forums and discussions didn't give me answer. Huffma, huffman, huffman.... How to deal with this huffman compression. I know that Minge can convert images to huffman compressed imgs, but it hasn't option for just convert one format to another. I was playin' with swapping data between ios and android version and it was very interesting. Ios data on my adreno device surprisingly working. Some of textures working perfect (hud, and all 2d graphics, pedestrians), but background in menu was white instead of dark grey. Some textures not work at all (cars textures, textures of levels and all environment), but cars reflection maps working. I can make some screenshots if somebody interested. Another big question for me is music. It is .mp3enc. Hex editor didn't give answer how to deal with it. I love fear factory, but music quality is awful.
My dream is max pack for mobile. Mobile version is awesome!

Boomer McLoud's picture
Fluffy Bunny
Posts: 19
Submitted: Mon, 04/07/2016 - 00:54

I am just soaking up information here like a sponge.
Good to see you involved in this, QTZ. My system is also XP.
I *DO* have recent Android devices, though.
I am furiously taking notes....

A.k.a Deep_Blue

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