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Carma for WP8

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cherepets's picture
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Carma for WP8
#1 Submitted: Fri, 03/05/2013 - 13:18

Android version will be released in a week.
Should we count on a port now? I know lots of people who would be happy see Carmageddon on their HTC WP 8S/8X and Lumia devices.

SpZ013's picture
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Submitted: Fri, 03/05/2013 - 20:30

Yes, let it come to the windowsphone. We also need it.

Trent's picture
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Submitted: Fri, 03/05/2013 - 21:48

It's not likely to happen. I'd love to have it on my lumia, but it's not likely.

cherepets's picture
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Submitted: Fri, 03/05/2013 - 22:20

Why?
I understand why it won't come to WP7: no support for C/C++ and low level graphic APIs.
But porting existing iOS/Android version to WP8 doesn't seem like a problem. Of course it needs some work on handling some system related things and testing and so on... But the most of codebase should be portable.

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Submitted: Fri, 03/05/2013 - 22:31

cherepets wrote:
Why?
I understand why it won't come to WP7: no support for C/C++ and low level graphic APIs.
But porting existing iOS/Android version to WP8 doesn't seem like a problem. Of course it needs some work on handling some system related things and testing and so on... But the most of codebase should be portable.

Porting the game to WP8 shouldn't be much of a problem at all, it would probably be easier than the Android port due to similarities to Windows's codebase. How easy it would be to port isn't the issue, though. The issue is resources. The entire Carma team is focussing on Reincarnation right now, they don't have the manpower to port the entire engine to a whole new platform then port the game elements over on top.

iOS was dead simple for them to do as the engine was already working on it. Android took a long time due to having to port the engine to it afresh, but they started it when a sizeable team was working on the mobile ports so I'd imagine a large bulk of the work was completed before they had to cut it back to one person working on it. If they started a WP8 version right now then it would no doubt start as a one person project. Even if it was substantially easier to port than the Android version, it would still take longer with only one person porting the entire thing to it.

Hence why I said "not likely to happen" instead of "definitely won't happen." It's possible, just unlikely ;)

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Submitted: Sat, 04/05/2013 - 14:56

Trent wrote:
Hence why I said "not likely to happen" instead of "definitely won't happen." It's possible, just unlikely ;)

I agree, but if the porting is a fairly straight-forward process, maybe a one person 'team' could tackle it.

But yeah, Stainless would decide whether that extra resource would be better used on C:R than doing endless ports. I say that because no sooner does one platform get announced,then everyone want's to know will it work on the BLAH BLAH 3000/XLT 6G?

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Submitted: Sat, 04/05/2013 - 21:32

Trent wrote:
iOS was dead simple for them to do as the engine was already working on it. Android took a long time due to having to port the engine to it afresh, but they started it when a sizeable team was working on the mobile ports so I'd imagine a large bulk of the work was completed before they had to cut it back to one person working on it. If they started a WP8 version right now then it would no doubt start as a one person project. Even if it was substantially easier to port than the Android version, it would still take longer with only one person porting the entire thing to it.

If they based the game off the original PC version then they first would have had to rewrite the grahics engine to work with openGL as the DOS version would have written directly to the screen, they could have based it off the windows version but that used directwrite the last option would have been the glide version which would have worked more closer to modern GPU's. Even still they would have to rewrite all the core rendering engine to work with shaders.

The basic File system code would have to be rewritten as well as the user input, so at this point all you have from the original game is the gameplay code.

Now the port from iOS to android would have involved rewriting the file IO and input code again and most likely changing some of the rendering code to the different versions of openGL:ES that Android has.

So for a WP8 port it would be the similar as the other platforms, rewrite file IO, input and change to using directX for rendering, but with less API versions and handsets to target it would need less testing.

cherepets's picture
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Submitted: Sat, 11/05/2013 - 08:17

The are a lot of wrappers to use OpenGL on top of DirectX.
So it should be easy to port Android/iOS version.

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Submitted: Mon, 13/05/2013 - 17:09

Yes, please make an wp8 version :) My Lumia 900 would thank you :)

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Submitted: Mon, 13/05/2013 - 22:33

cherepets wrote:
Why?
I understand why it won't come to WP7: no support for C/C++ and low level graphic APIs.
But porting existing iOS/Android version to WP8 doesn't seem like a problem. Of course it needs some work on handling some system related things and testing and so on... But the most of codebase should be portable.

you are right, it is not a problem to technically achieve it.

but that's not the reason why it wont come to windows phone. the reason why is this: money

windows phone holds a laughable portion of the market share of smartphones compared to android and iphone, and even the iphone walks all over the android system which is a big reason why lots of apps / games are always late on droid or never even make it there.

until windows phone becomes overwhelmingly popular with people in the tens of millions shouting for more variety in games and apps, you are pretty much stuck with whatever microsoft / xbox can offer you and whatever app developers are actually there now developing for it.

i remember in 2007 when the google G1 came out, the first android phone. in fact android just came onto the scene. it was crap. it had nothing to offer, and content was scarce. it's taken up until 2011-2012 for me to see that it finally has become on par with the iphone in terms of practicality, content, apps, games, and windows phone is just not there yet. but no doubt it will be.

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Submitted: Tue, 14/05/2013 - 09:52

Laughable is a bit of a silly word to be using. WP certainly isn't up to iOS or Android levels but they had a massive head start on it: they both have huge public awareness, carriers putting tons of cash into marketing them and retail staff showing bias towards whatever device they personally use. WP has had an uphill battle since it launched but it is progressing much faster than people give it credit for.

It has over 3% of the smartphone market now. That might seem small but it reached that percentage faster than Android did and, given how the market has grown exponentially, that 3% covers a lot more people than when Android reached 3%. All the fluff about "not enough apps" and "not enough support" and "never going to take off" and so on are the exact phrases thrown at Android in the first few years.

At this point in Android's life-cycle it did not have the variety of apps or developer support which WP has nor the amount of interest from consumers, I can say that as a fact having used both Android and WP since both launched. It's actually incredible WP is progressing at such a speed given how, unlike Android which only had iOS to compete with, WP has two massive platforms to compete with in a far more crowded marketplace.

Also, that "you are pretty much stuck with whatever Microsoft can offer you and whatever app developers are developing for it" goes for all platforms. On iOS you're stuck with whatever Apple can offer your and whatever app developers are developing for it. On Android you're stuck with whatever Google can offer you and whatever app developers are developing for it. The fact is there's absolutely loads of developers making all variety of apps and games for WP8, games especially are flourishing with the Unity engine and others adding support for the platform along with how WP8 allows games to use the DX11 API.

Suffice to say there's plenty enough WP users out there already to make a port of Carmageddon financially viable, that's not the issue at all as they would certainly make a profit on it. The issue is development resources inside Stainless. They had lots of experience developing for iOS, some certainly had experience developing for Android but I bet none of them have had previous experience developing for WP. It would not only require them to port the game but learn an entirely new platform and it's quirks which would take up a lot of time and resources which would be better spent on Reincarnation. After that's done I would hope they would look into a Windows Phone port,

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