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Been working on huge sound mod for Carmageddon 1 but need assistance.

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DarkReign27's picture
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Been working on huge sound mod for Carmageddon 1 but need assistance.
#1 Submitted: Fri, 11/05/2012 - 05:26

Ever since Windows 98 I remember playing games and the WAV files sometimes click and pop at the beginning and end of the wav file playback. I have spent two months working on a Carmageddon 1 mod for audio revamping the whole thing mixing sounds into Carmageddon formats and now I see all the sounds have an annoying clicking noise like back in the day of win 98, xp etc. Is it that they're too loud? I thin keven if they are quieter they still do it... Even the original game sounds do it even and some of them are well above normalized volume too. Is this a flaw with Windows Direct sound? I'm stumped, anyone know what I'm talking about? The clicking doesn't show up on the actually waveform. I can't loop car engines properly since every time it loops it in game it clicks each time it replays the audio. It's damn annoying. Might just scrap all this work I put into it now unless it's just my PC? Is it interference? Although like I said I remember this sort of thing from older WAV formats. Even if I normalize the volume it seems to do it and someone suggested silence at the beginning and end of the files. That did not solve it and engines can't loop that way they'll sound messed. Any help would be appreciated. I have edited like mad to make them all sound almost same volumes and bass treble etc. This really is the only issue and if it can't be solved I don't know what to do, it all sounds fine except this :(

I'm using Windows 7 x64, my sound card is an X-fi external USB 5.1 Pro but it's on stereo. I have troubleshooted a lot and nothing good comes from it but I think it is only Carmageddon 1 and older games doing this. Older sounds seem to do it and it seems to be only WAV files. Just wondering.

Edited by: Errol on 09/04/2014 - 12:04
TheCoach's picture
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Submitted: Sat, 12/05/2012 - 21:57

You should send some of your audio files to someone who doesn't have issues with sound.
That will at least tell you if the fault is your own pc.

DarkReign27's picture
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Submitted: Mon, 14/05/2012 - 05:06

Thanks fer the reply, actually did attempt this juts before I checked here again seemed it was still on the files. Only solution I found is using Adobe Audition. For some reason Audacity, Windows Sound Recorder, and sony vegas all make cracks on the wav files. It is going to take a long time to edit every single wav file and remove the auto silence Audition adds to each file when I open them, but I guess I it's solved somewhat... Lol this will take me a week trying to loop all the engines again, damn. Thanks again.

jimbob's picture
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Submitted: Mon, 28/05/2012 - 13:24

I had a look at this once before. Many of the audio files suffer from what is called a DC offset, this causes clicks because the waveform does not start or end at 0db. Unless this is fixed before further processing you will have all sorts of problems with loop points. The other thing that may complicate the process is that the files are at various sample rates and bit depths, presumably optimised based on the frequency bandwidth required for each audio sample and how much storage space was available.

Let me know if you think I may be able to help with anything else. I was considering creating an audio mod too, maybe we could combine forces?

jimbob's picture
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Submitted: Mon, 28/05/2012 - 13:26

I had a look at this once before. Many of the audio files suffer from what is called a DC offset, this causes clicks because the waveform does not start or end at 0db. Unless this is fixed before further processing you will have all sorts of problems with loop points. The other thing that may complicate the process is that the files are at various sample rates and bit depths, presumably optimised based on the frequency bandwidth required for each audio sample and how much storage space was available.

Let me know if you think I may be able to help with anything else. I was considering creating an audio mod too, maybe we could combine forces?

stygimoloch's picture
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Submitted: Mon, 28/05/2012 - 13:26

jimbob wrote:
I had a look at this once before. Many of the audio files suffer from what is called a DC offset, this causes clicks because the waveform does not start or end at 0db. Unless this is fixed before further processing you will have all sorts of problems with loop points.

That would, presumably, just be a matter of fading in/out the starts and ends of the samples, or inserting a 0.1 second silence at the beginning/end?

jimbob's picture
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Submitted: Mon, 28/05/2012 - 13:47

Just adding fades or silence in cases where there is a DC offset will create glitched loops. I think Audacity has a DC offset removal tool, this would help. Sound Forge would be a great tool for this as once you have processed the audio, EQ or effects or whatever, you can audition the loops, not sure if this is possible with Audition or Audacity because I am not too familiar with them. DarkReign also mentions adjusting Bass/Treble, the problem here is often when you process audio with some sort of plugin it can phase shift your audio slightly which also can also result in clicks, as your zero crossovers move a few samples.

stygimoloch's picture
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Submitted: Mon, 28/05/2012 - 15:42

May I ask why it would create glitched loops? Not doubting you, I just don't understand why it would cause that. Audacity does have a click removal tool, anyway.

I think the only way to do anything involving loops in Audacity is to manually C/P the entire thing a few times, which is obviously not very useful. I miss Audiomatic, that was so versatile, and did loops just fine. But I think they stopped making it years ago.

DarkReign27's picture
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Submitted: Mon, 28/05/2012 - 16:33

I wouldn't mind combining forces spent too much time testing and making these things might as well get it done. The 0db, I'll check again I think you may be onto something although I put it down to 0db on both end and beginning to test some of them and they still did it. I could send Harry's Humvee Engine because it has been doing it maybe you could look at it? Harry's does it at the end only see if it does it on your system? Here I zipped Harry's engine and I zipped Jaques, Jaques works fine dunno what's go'n on. Sorry about Depositfiles 60sec wait. Tried two other sites they just keep loading never let me download the file...

http://depositfiles.com/files/mxy78s6ca

jimbob's picture
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Submitted: Wed, 30/05/2012 - 11:27

This is interesting. I opened both files in Sound Forge. Setting both files to loop, there is an audible click in Jaques, but Harry loops smoothly. This is the opposite way round to the problem you describe. It is also clear from these particular examples that DC offset is not an issue, I seem to remember this maybe only affecting the vocal fx, but I can't really remember.

On closer inspection of Harry by zooming in to the waveform, it seems that the beginning and end points are very close to 0db, and it loops glitch free. I have tweaked it a little bit to make sure it exactly hits the zero crossover at each end. This may help?

But further inspection of Jaques shows that the beginning point does not start at 0db and also that at the end it does not quite finish a complete cycle, and therefor glitches when looped. I have fixed the issue here to make it loop correctly in Sound Forge, but it is interesting because you say this one was already fine within the game?

I wonder whether there is a glitch in the game's audio engine, and the workaround discovered by Stainless was to set loop points slightly early or late of zero crossovers?? To test this theory please could you send me another example of one of your loops that does work and and one which doesn't?

In any case, I have tweaked both files you sent me, and you can download them below. I would be interested to know whether it makes an improvement.

http://depositfiles.com/files/v8rj9tcg0

jimbob's picture
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Submitted: Wed, 30/05/2012 - 11:35

Quote:
May I ask why it would create glitched loops? Not doubting you, I just don't understand why it would cause that.

It may not always produce a glitch with fades. It depends on whether the waveform has completed a full cycle by the end of the file or not, and the duration of the fade. A few samples is as much as you can normally get away with.

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